I am a little concerned that geocaching might be on the downward slide. What makes me think this? The length of online logs. I’m noticing a trend in the logs I’m seeing towards shorter logs for new cachers. I ran some numbers on a cache I just published and cachers with more than 500 finds wrote logs longer than 150 characters, 50% of cachers with fewer than 500 finds wrote shorter logs. As much as I like to read longer logs the length of the log isn’t the issue. Twitter has shown us that you can be brief and be interesting at the same time. What this is showing me is that we have developed a geocaching culture of take without enough give.
I try and make my caches interesting. I’ll try unusual hides, interesting places, something to make it more than a numbers run. My only reward for doing this is to read the logs of people that find the caches. If I spend a few hours on the creation of a cache I would hope it warrants a longer log than TFTC. Unfortunately not all cachers feel as I do.
I know that if I do 20 caches in a day it is hard to write something unique for all the finds but I try. I’m not concerned with the logs on power trails. I’m thinking of caches where the cache owner put a bit of work in to the cache but the finder didn’t reciprocate with a suitable log. How does a newbie cacher know how long a log should be? Who is teaching cacher etiquette?
Unlike baseball or soccer or darts there are no geocaching leagues. We don’t start out in peewee and progress up to Triple A. It is for this reason that geocaching associations and geocaching vendors provide a critical role in the success of geocaching. Without these related organizations there is no one to teach new cachers etiquette or technique. A film canister is NOT a suitable cache container where I live but where do you go to learn that?
If you are like me and would like geocaching to continue for a long time then please let hiders know you appreciate their effort by writing complete logs. Here’s something that geocaching listing sites like geocaching.com can easily do: add a character count to the log submission. Let me sort, group or search by log length. I don’t need favourite points if I can see the log length. If every log for a cache is less than 50 characters then I know it’s not is cool as a cache where every log is longer then 200 characters. You could even go as far as showing the average log length at the top of the log entries.
If you are supporting geocaching education let me know and I’ll tweet about it. Something everyone can do to support the geocaching community is to join their local association. These associations and groups are great ways to learn about geocaching.
teamvoyagr
I have been writing the cachemania blog since 2008. I'm interested in the development of geocaching and the many ways that people play the game.
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26 Comments until now
I’m not sure there’s any excuse for a “TFTC” or “Found with the geoMob” log. Perhaps as an implicit criticism of the cache, or maybe if it’s the umpteenth find of the powertrail and the ‘real’ log is in the first cache of the series, but I find that there’s too many people, logging by phone especially, who take the smiley but contribute nothing to the cache page.
Then I thought about a recent find, “Welcome to McGregor Path” http://coord.info/GC2ZCJC and my reaction to that cache, I called it a lazy cache. A nano on the fence post…. Perhaps I was too harsh but the world seems to be filling up with nanos on fence posts, 35 mm cans in pine trees, magnetic key holders on guardrails. What can you say in your log about this type of cache?
In a location where a regular or small cache could easily be concealed a micro is thrown into the bush, or in a gawd-awful place a P.O.C. cache is thrown on the ground. Should my log wax eloquent about the wonderful experience I had in finding it? If I call the cache-owner on it they get upset and defensive so perhaps it’s easier or more tactful just to say ‘Found it’?
What has been irking me lately is the quality of the items left in some of the caches I’ve found lately. Caching has never been about WHAT you find in the cache, but rather about the adventure of finding it. That being said, an old bottlecap from a bottle of MGD or a used toothbrush are not items I like to see in a cache. You don’t have to spend a fortune, or even a single dime, but c’mon, have a LITTLE creativity!! Additionally, while I personally don’t have any issues with a person enjoying a little “herbal recreation” once in a while, I have found small baggies of marijuana in several caches around the area. Knock it off, people! Kids enjoy caching too!
I find this to be true but also find alot of cut and paste logs not just new cachers either I try to describe the day as it goes the happenings at GZ condition of cache etc. Some might seem boring but so much better than. Found it TFTC. We have been going just over a year and having a blast. Joe
I agree 100% with your article. TFTC is a slap in the face when I spend hours placing and weeks dreaming up a cache. Some of mine take hours to even get to, and I get TFTC?
We started caching in the second wave of 2004. We remember when caching was a small community and we all knew each other. Phone apps have ruined all that.
Micros that should be garbage is now the norm in most places we travel to. What Burns us is micro trash in the back country. What a waste of time.
Geocaching is devolving when it should be evolving into better quality.
@Lib you and others make a valid point about TFTC. I’ve left the equivalent of the one penny tip form time to time. What I’m really getting at with my post is that there is no training system for new cachers. @NevadaWolf might have said it best on twitter – monkey see, monkey do. Having an experienced cacher introduce you to the activity is probably a great way to start.
I’ve seen the trend of lamer and lamer caches getting placed, and the logs reflect that, even my own. I credit the situation to noobs being allowed to place caches before getting properly educated about proper hides, and not gaining enough …experience while caching a variety of caches. If Groundspeak were to invoke some sort of level of proficiency guideline before being allowed to place a cache, then cache hides and containers would improve, guideline infractions would decrease, and finders logs would change from a reporting of flaws to perhaps a complimentary note. As I am fond of saying, if my log doesn’t mention that I had a nice walk to your cache and found a good container in a proper hide, then I didn’t; it isn’t and it ain’t…I have found that noobs, especially lately, berate me for an honest log, when all their friends and other noob cachers are falling over themselves congratulating the CO on their new lame POC. We try to get the word out via our monthly workshops, but at those we are mostly preaching to the choir since the problem noobs seldom if ever attend. Our CCC forums have been a great help in spreading information and helping to educate the noobs (who sign up). We have a long way to go before the problem of lame caches gets resolved, especially since Groundspeak seems to care not at all for the reputation these noobs are bringing to geocaching…
Since the iPhone came on to the scene I have personal experience with the cut and paste logging technique, but I always try to expand my logs once I get home – but it IS getting to be quite a struggle sometimes to think of something positive about the latest crop of new caches. It seems that every caching trip is overwhelmed with deficient caches in relation to good ones. Perhaps an UN-favourite button…?
You don’t mention too much about it, in the blog but it’s pretty much all about the smartphone apps. I’ve been around since 2003, before the temporary “find caches with a car GPS off your windshield” explosion (that was maybe 2006 or so), and we sure as heck didn’t see a massive influx of those “newbies” logging every cache with TFTC and nothing else.
This new trend is really about 2 years old, and from what I’ve seen, the vast majority of these people either lose interest and disappear from the caching scene, or if they do go on to find 500+ caches and place a few of their own, they eventually get a clue that long time cachers aren’t dropping TFTC logs on caches.
Then again, probably for every 75 find account with 75 TFTC logs that loses interest and never cache again, there will be another new one in it’s place doing the same thing next year!
I especially agree with the last commenter. I have been checking on the CO’s statistics for new caches around here and I’m finding many are hidden by owners with few and sometimes NO finds! I emailed the Groundspeak reviewer with my concerns and wasn’t even honored with a reply. I guess this also shows Groundspeaks lack of care about the quality of caches. They’re just after the numbers.
I don’t agree with correlating the length of posts or logbook entries with a decline in Geocaching. You should be looking at the overall number of caches being placed and found.
My opinion is that due to the increased availability and ease of wireless internet (Wifi/Cellular/etc..) more people are probably utilizing mobile devices more to check in.
Like emailing, when done via my phone, I typically try to keep it as brief as possible because entering text is not as streamlined on a small screen as it is on a keyboard.
I’d like to see some statistics on this if anybody knows of any to see if I’m right, or even if there really is a decline in Geocaching.
Same thing is happening in Australia, with much shorter logs and lamer caches – As others have said, we put it largely down to the smartphone apps and the breed of cachers that is creating – Where it’s not about the community but simply about ‘finding’. As you say, much more about the self than about others.
We’re doing what we can to encourage people – Many people put requests for respectable logs in their descriptions (not that iphone cachers read descriptions!) and I always put a link to the GeocachingAustralia forums on my cache pages so people can come and learn about logging and hiding and so on.
But in the end, I think we just have to accept that this is an inevitable part of the growing popularity of geocaching. You’ll get these sorts – but fortunately, they won’t play for long as without the community part of it, it’s pretty easy to lose interest – and then their hides will get abandoned and archived and we can all move on
And for those that do learn to play a bit better, they’ll develop into fully fledged geocachers soon enough.
I’ve seen plenty of new cachers who started with minimal logs grow into quite verbose and ‘giving’ geocachers with a little time and grace and encouragement.
So don’t fret – I don’t think the game is going downhill – We just need to focus on what we can do and how we contribute and set a good example. We can’t control what people log or what they hide, but we can work on our attitude towards it. (I funnily enough wrote a piece about that just recently – http://cachechism.blogspot.com/2011/09/phinders-philosophy.html)
When we started we did short logs for sure. As we found more caches our log word count went up. I am (perhaps naively) hoping that this is something that will happen with other new cachers.
The smart-phone phenomenon was mentioned and I think that also is a part of it. When I log off our iPhone the logs are SHORT, when I log on our netbook or at home they are long (as a result I try not to log on my phone).
I know what you mean though about the logs being one of the only rewards for placing a cache. We enjoy reading logs, and it is such a letdown when I open up a mail only to see TFTC or something inane like that.
I hope you are wrong with your assessment of geocaching, but fear you might be right
My turn. Thanks to others for expressing my thoughts. You hit on a lot of points. When myself and other cachers in Eastern Ontario first met 2 years ago, cache quality was number one on our issue list. Other than Dutchmaster and MacArthure Rowe, most of the caches in this area were “weak”. Coordinates were way off, and they were in areas nobody would ever want to return to, let alone visit in the first place.
And this in a region rich in history and geographically interest. GEO was created to help change that. I think we have. ( 2 CITO’s with the South Nation Conservation Authority and the caches placed for those events. – a 10/10/10 Event, plus a Doors Open Cornwall. Let’s not forget the Glengarry Fen and our recent success with the Raisin River Conservation Authority. ( Charlottenburg trails and Coopers Marsh))
These successes are the result of like minded geocachers who wanted the visitors to take away a positive experience. For the most part these 300 caches have resulted in fun and adventure for the finders. They have also resulted in many new fans of geocaching, and these folks are starting to “pay back” with geocaches of their own. For the most part, these new cachers are understanding that good coordinates, creative cache hides and interesting locations make for better logs and positive comments. They have also been open to constructive advice when something is not quite correct. Reading the logs of visitors seems to amplify that we are going in the right direction.
The advent of “paperless” caching, on Oregons etc and iPhones with the App have eliminated paper. In my opinion they have also eliminated true cache logging ( mea culpa) It’s so easy to hit a trail and cut and paste now. It’s easier to have 35-50 finds in a day, that the cacher just does the cut and paste. Smileys are there. I now get finds on my 72 caches that are blank, not even a TFTC/MPLC.
My reply is that i”ll never be that rude. Every cache deserves a word. Every good cache deserves a story and a favourite. I remember telling the Bearrs – “I’m amazed you always write an original log.” If they can do it, we all should do it. And maybe it’s time to delete a blank log or a TFTC/MPLC. Inky
I like caches that bring me to some place that has a redeeming value. Power trails or nanos only function for me to practice my observation skills. TFTH. Even thought I use a gps and phone (with internet access), it still takes me time at the end of the day, to log my caches properly. Every cache doesn’t deserve a word.
Anyone can place a piece of paper in a 35mm can, hang it in a tree. However, if someone who uses an original container, in the same tree, will get my thanks for the hide.
For example:
This one was a great hide, in a tree: http://coord.info/GC2YZH3 It made it into one of my favs.
Or ones that have a neat thing to do, for the cache, like: http://coord.info/GCWFH5
This cache was an easy cache, but I made it into an adventure: http://coord.info/GC1C28D
With smart phones, you are now getting a younger cacher playing the game. I am but one of those cache hunters who like to get to the cache, take a look around and take some pictures while I’m there. If I find a nano, under a skirt, where is the fun in that? It is more fun for the hider than the hunter.
I agree completely.
I try to put a much work into my log as the CO put into the cache.
The better the cache, the more I want to write about it.
Simple park and grab magnetic nano under a lam post skirt? Not so much
[...] comment of a recent blog led me to Phinders Philosophy who has his own views on the qualities of a good geocache. He [...]
[...] Cachemania is a blog referenced by a local geocacher. In today’s entry, the author posts a rant about the quality of logs left by geocachers, particularly newbie/noob geocachers. The comments provide the true grist for thought. [...]
Ok I have to admit I ran across this because I could not find the information on GeoCaching.com. I sent them an e-mail with no response, so I search the web.
I was introducted to GeoCaching by 2 couples in my rv camp group. One of the couples would strike out early and be gone all day. The other couple knew about geocaching but I could never get them off the picnic table to show me about it. So my partner and I got started on our own. I tried for over a year asking questions but could never get anywhere with it, find a cache or even a mentor interested in sharing the quest. Suffice it to say, I taught myself.
Having said that I really never knew what to put in the log. I would read other logs, and, as one other comment pointed out, monkey see monkey do. I am nearing 100 caches and my logs are getting longer in some cases, and I find the more I cache, the more I want to cache (sounds like a drug to me!!)
I never really realized the purpose of the log, even though I saw the descriptions asking for more effort to be put into writing them. Of the near 100 caches I have found, I have only had contact with 2 owners and only 1 of them offered to help or mentor.
Maybe a serious cacher could take a look at the short logs, do a little research and find out if the finder has a low number of finds or has been a short time member. From there take on the mantle of a mentor and send an email to the finder offering more than “let me know if you need help”. Offer tips, suggestions, information on writing logs etc. I would have killed to have had this type of person to turn to. If they were there, I had no way of knowing who they were or how to get in touch with them.
I am happy to have found this site thank you for the great information.
Any idea where I can find out about “Did not find” etiquette??
Hi TTB, I’m glad you found the blog helpful. You might find this post on DNFs helpful:
http://www.cachemania.com/do-you-dnf/rants/2009/09/
Having just stumbled onto this great site I feel compelled to ad my nickels worth. We’ve only found 69 so far BUT most of them are from the same person. This person has taken the time to place a zillion in our area BUT it seems like he just drove up and down the road every tenth of a mile and threw them out of his car window. We’ve place 4 creative ones so far but some very good locations that I have a creative idea for can’t be used because they are too close to one of these “window throws.” I get kind of ticked when I see a great location and have an immediate idea for something different only to find out that a nano or bison tube is laying under a rock by a fence or power pole. Not very creative but it stops me or someone else from being creative.
There seems to be a huge lack of caching etiquette nowadays. Logs are meant to explain to the CO, and also to those logging the cache, the finder’s experience with the cache, not just that it was found.
My husband and I cache as a team, but I tend to handle the logging, both written and online, of our finds. I always include our experience, even if it was a quick and easy LPC or CnD. I tend to mention such things as the landscape, the weather, the reason we decided to find that particular cache, if we were with other cachers, how the container and log are holding up, if we had to make a repair to or replacement of the cache… pretty much anything other than a simple “TFTC”. Of course, we cache for the experience and not the numbers, so it makes it easier to log more than an acronym/abbreviation.
I don’t know if it is END of geocaching as a whole, but it may be the end of the “old school” ways of doing it.
Is it technology? Is it laziness? Is it lack enforcement? Is it simply today’s society? Who knows. Like Elmers are for new amateur radio licensees, we need geocaching mentors for new geocachers. No doubt about it!
I will be teaching some educational courses on geocaching for the community through my place of employment over the next few months. This is ABSOLUTELY be one of the topics that we will be covering!
Just my $0.02 … -E (authorized users)
Wow, what an informative post. We are fairly new to geocaching. We’ve logged less than 30 finds and currently have 2 caches waiting for review. Now, I’m wondering if I should pull one of my new caches and make something a little more elaborate. It is a 35mm film canister, but it has a geocaching.com that is complete. I’m not a fan of micros with nothing but a log inside, so I took some time to find several small, but interesting, items to fill the canister. I was surprised at what I could fit inside. Now, I’m reading in this post, and a few others, that 35mm film cans are as good as trash. I’m curious what portion of the geocaching community feels this way? Should I rethink this cache – and yes it is in among some pine trees.
My other thought was this; I appreciate your thoughts on what should go in a log. I’ve written some longer log entries, but I’m also guilty of tossing a quick acronym in. It all depends on the cache and location. But, I’m going to stick a small notebook in my backpack and make some notes on the trail so that I’ll be able to make a proper entry when I get back. I think this is (for me at least) due to a lack of information regarding log entries. The last thing I read on the subject said, in effect, “Cache owners appreciate your thoughts on their cache, but a couple acronyms are okay, too.” I stand corrected. Thanks.
This needs to be added to gc.com in big bold fonts:
Logs are meant to explain to the CO, and also to those logging the cache, the finder’s experience with the cache, not just that it was found. (from above)
When hiding a cache container, start out larger and find the equilibrium size where it stays hidden and not muggled.
I think I only have 2 micros out of 49 active caches only cuz they have to be tho.
Micros and tee eff tee see suck! LOL
zeke
I happened across this today as I was wondering if my frustration over short logs was only me. In the beginning it is true that I also did the same. I looked back on my first finds and cringed at all the “TFTC!’s” that I posted. And also, despite the unexceptional cache types that my first few were, at least I tried to take you someplace interesting. And if I can’t bring you someplace interesting, I’m going to make sure you enjoy the container. I certainly agree with groundspeak implementing a minimum amount of finds before placing a cache. In the past year, a few noobs have opened accounts, place caches after only a few, and in two cases, NO finds! Of course they were POC’s and they are eventually abandoned leaving it up to a reviewer to archive for non-response. But as far as log lengths go, as time went on, I started making every post into at least a small adventure. Even after finding a newspaper nano, I had to at least say a few things. Now I feel perhaps I go TOO overboard! But area cachers seem to be enjoying them. Twice I’ve had to edit for going beyond the maximum size. Some examples are 12/12/12 when I went for http://coord.info/GC41A6H , and on 12/20/12 for http://coord.info/GC42QEP and http://coord.info/GC42P0W . But after a couple people posted compliments and a few more emailed me, I now feel obligated. I’m afraid I’ll hurt a CO’s feelings if his or her cache doesn’t get similar treatment. I like one cacher’s reply in a note to that log that he wishes you could give fav points for logs. Maybe that could motivate people more.
I even feel the same way with a cache page. Now, I go insane with some of mine. But just to see, “One for the numbers. Hint: zntargvp” isn’t exactly an indication of a fun find. Even the crappiest micro I ever made I tried to at least give hints that make people laugh.
The funny thing is that as I’m typing this, my email went off five times with a cacher logging some of mine. “TFTC,” “TFTC,” “Thanks. TFTC,” “Nice container. TFTC,” and finally a “TFTC.” One was for finding one of my latest caches that is disguised as a copper water release pipe. I put a lot of work conceptualizing, designing and placing it. And the majority of people who have found it have left nice logs. I hate to say that I’m insecure and need to be showered with compliments, but come on. We are, in a way, artists when it comes to cache page, container, and placement design. It is our art and all artists wish to have positive feedback.
I think it would be cool if groundspeak made it so when you are logging a find, you see a minimum letter countdown. Nothing huge, but say at least 30 characters. When you hit “Submit Log Entry,” a window pops up, “You need ___ more characters to log.” It’ll never happen of course, but it would be nice. Most cachers here on the west side and south bay of L.A. are pretty cool and leave fun logs. It is aggravating when the TFTC’ers come along, but they come and they go and fortunately for me, the vast majority leave at least a bit more, if not a lot.
So I can’t say for sure if we are seeing an end at least to what geocacing was before as I’ve on been a member since 2008, and only really started getting into the game about 18 months ago, but each time I set out to make a new find, I’d be lying if there’s not a level of giddiness as I approach each find. And of course, a loss of giddiness as I grab the key holder from under the paper machine.
teamvoyagr, thanks for this post. I am a new geocacher and agree that some education on etiquette would be helpful. I’m guilty of writing only “TFTC” in logs because I didn’t know any better until now. In my defense, I use a phone to log while I am out (otherwise I will be less likely to log it at all later) and so far I have been looking for mostly easy caches in my urban neighbourhood, plus it’s hard to get excited about yet another skirt-lifting exercise. It’s my choice what kinds of caches I go for, so as I gain confidence and go after more challenging caches, I will put more effort into giving caches the log entries they deserve.
Well I am a little embarrassed, my wife and I are newbies, caching for only 5 weeks. I do appreciate many of the caches we find, I am guilty of not letting the owners know that appreciation. That will change. Thank you for the enlightenment.
Don’t be embarrassed, you are learning. I’m glad you found my blog and were able to take something from it that will help you enjoy caching more.
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